Author Topic: Care & Feeding: Homework optional  (Read 183 times)

Offline Lynn2000

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Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« on: March 15, 2019, 01:43:38 pm »
https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/03/ask-a-teacher-education-homework-grades.html
Slate's Care & Feeding/Ask a Teacher advice column. I'm especially interested in the first question.

Daughter is in middle school--probably 12-14 years old, in my experience. Her school's policy is that "homework" only counts as 5% of the grade, and she has figured out that she can still get A's and B's without doing the homework. Teachers also have the option to call something "classwork," which counts for 30% of the grade, and the daughter always does that. The mother feels it's disrespectful to not do the homework, as the teachers have worked hard on it.

The adviser talks about how many schools have made efforts to reduce homework amounts, as studies are showing it really doesn't do that much good; also, studies show that girls tend to fret more about school than boys, so if Daughter has found a way to get acceptable grades without "leaving it all on the field," so much the better. But, the adviser cautions that the teacher may indeed think less of Daughter for not "being a hard worker" and that might affect how the teacher recommends Daughter for extracurriculars, etc..

First, a more neutral question from me--I've read several times in places like this about "the school's policy" on something like homework or grades. Is that a common thing, to have a schoolwide policy? Is it a new thing? I graduated from high school about twenty years ago, and never did any of my schools have a set policy for something instruction-related. Every teacher set their own priorities--how many points homework was worth, what percentage counted as an A, etc.. It was "standard" to have 90-100% as an A, for example, but "tough" teachers would set the minimum A at 93%. Teachers were supposed to be upfront and consistent, but they didn't have to agree with each other or abide by a schoolwide policy. I wonder about the pros and cons of this situation.

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Offline Lynn2000

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Re: Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 02:21:47 pm »
My thought is that I find the "disrespectful" concern to be silly. If it's a schoolwide policy, teachers are well aware that homework is only a tiny percentage of a student's grade and that many students will thus choose not to do it. It's been made a tiny percentage of their grade because it isn't super-important to do. A teacher who felt disrespected by students not doing something that has been objectively judged of little importance, would be unreasonable, I think. If Daughter is truly able to understand the material and maintain acceptable grades without doing the homework, more power to her. There's only two reasons to do homework that I can think of: 1) it helps kids learn and thus do better on other assignments, like tests; 2) it's necessary for their grades (that is, if they don't do it, serious points are lost). In Daughter's case, neither issue applies. She'd be better off using homework time to draw a nice picture for her teacher as a present, to show her affection and respect. Or, use that time to do chores around the house and thus show her respect for her mother and the family.

If Mom is concerned about the respect issue, why not ask the teacher directly? I'm surprised the adviser didn't suggest that, as usually they promote communication between parents and teachers. If the teacher hasn't given any signs they're upset about not receiving homework from Daughter, I don't know why Mom would be concerned anyway. But, if Mom has seen or heard something that makes her think the "disrespect" argument has merit, take it to the teacher for confirmation or denial. Related, I think it's odd the adviser suggested the teacher would think poorly of Daughter for not doing the homework--that she isn't a hard worker. What the heck, she's getting A's and B's. Do you want blood from this child? Does everything have to be 100% or else she's a failure? I might say, as Mom, "Okay, if the work is so easy for you, B's are no longer acceptable, it must be all A's." Or maybe look into enrichment or gifted activities, to make school more rigorous and interesting. If "hard work" is something they want to encourage, give her more challenging material, not pointless busywork. Maybe if it's a situation where they aren't counting just letter grades, but rather exact percentages to determine class rank, you could have an argument for a 97% A being better than a 93% A, but in my experience that usually only applies to high school, not middle school.

But, another important issue that wasn't touched on--Daughter might assess the situation and choose not to do the homework now, but she has to be willing to reassess and change should a different situation arise. Like if she gets a topic that she doesn't understand right away, or next year the material takes a leap beyond what she's comfortable with--at this age, I don't think she gets to choose to slump down to a B, when everyone knows she could get an A by doing reasonable additional work. So I would probably mention to her, "Okay, if you get comfortable ignoring homework now, will you be willing to do it when you actually need it?" In college, my homework was usually entirely optional and worth nothing, point-wise. But I quickly learned that for some classes, I needed practice in figuring out those problems, because the majority of the grade came from the exams, which were nothing BUT those problems. So if I hadn't done the homework just for learning, I wouldn't have done well on the exams. At 13 or whatever, she probably isn't thinking about that yet, so I would definitely talk about how she can know when she needs to do the homework, and not get caught up in never doing it or feeling bad for doing it. It's a resource there to help her succeed, and if she doesn't need it right now, great, but if she needs it in the future, she shouldn't hesitate to turn to it.

I keep thinking about this because I was a straight-A student all through public school. My school was not very rigorous, but I still worried and fretted about my grades, and I was under a lot of pressure by my parents and my peers to always have the highest grade, preferably a 100%. I would have done the homework without even considering NOT doing it, because I understood that a 93% was not good enough when I could have a 97%, even though both were A's. Once when I brought home a report card with an A- (A minus) my dad said, "That's almost a B," in a warning tone. The resources didn't exist to give me more challenging materials, apparently, and I was bored a lot of the time and used my classtime to write journal entries rather than pay attention to the teacher repeating something I already understood. (I have recently been digitizing those journal entries, so I can see exactly how much extra time I had!) So it was a combination of being bored but also knowing I had to do XYZ to get the highest possible percentage and never have a missing or late assignment (oh the shame). I was way more anxious about it than was reasonable, looking back, and I wouldn't want to encourage another student to get a skewed perspective like that.

If, when Daughter gets to high school, the exact percentage does become important, perhaps she will on her own decide to achieve more, relative to college acceptance and scholarships, or her parents could set a specific bar for some practical purpose (like this scholarship only applies to kids who rank in the top 10% of their class). Right now, in middle school, I'm guessing an A is an A still, so why put more pressure on her, again when the only way to "grow" the A is pointless busywork? Give her more challenging material or extra credit that will enrich her understanding if they want her to work harder at school.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 03:24:46 pm by Lynn2000 »

Offline lowspark

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Re: Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2019, 11:13:28 am »
The main issue I have with this whole thing is, if the daughter is bringing home As and Bs, why is the mom involved enough to even know that homework was assigned and whether or not the daughter is doing it.

At some point, and IMO, if your child is performing well, sooner rather than later, as a parent, you need to step back and allow the child to manage their own schoolwork. It's an important skill to know when you need to work harder and when you don't; when you need to study; when you need to ask for help, etc. If you're getting along fine without doing what I'm guessing is tedious busywork in the daughter's eyes, and it doesn't affect your grade, then it's your decision to do it or not.

Mom needs to get her hands out of the daughter's pie. If the daughter's grades begin to drop, or if the teacher expresses concern, or if the daughter asks for help, then, and only then, should Mom step back in and do some kind of monitoring.

Regarding respect for the teacher, that's between teacher and student. If the teacher has concerns, the ball is in her court to contact the parents if necessary to get it resolved. Mom doesn't need to be the unsolicited proxy for the teacher.

Quote
If "hard work" is something they want to encourage, give her more challenging material, not pointless busywork.
This. The fact that the daughter is doing well without doing the homework indicates that the material is not challenging enough for her to need extra practice. Maybe it's the teacher/school/curriculum that doesn't have enough respect for the student, at least in this case, since they are not challenging her enough. But again, I put the responsibility on the teacher and school to approach the parents if a student needs to be moved to a different class or have additional work assigned due to talent above the norm.

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Offline lowspark

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Re: Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 11:25:26 am »
This reminds me of a story about something that happened when I was in eighth grade. I was pretty much a straight A student so grades were very important to me. We were assigned a project in my English class which was to be a "major grade', i.e., a significant portion of the final average. Well, somehow, I completely forgot all about the assignment and simply didn't do it. I got an F on it. No make up allowed. Done deal.

Well, I figured out that if I got a 100 on every test and other assignment for the remainder of the semester, I could still swing an A in the class. So I set about doing whatever it took to do just that. I worked pretty hard in a class which normally wouldn't take a whole lot of effort for me, to make sure that I never missed one thing.

On the day of the final exam, my teacher was grading papers as they were turned in so I waited to find out my score. And I made it. A!

I remember my teacher, Mr. Hood, saying that since I hadn't turned in that one assignment he was loathe to give me the A. But I retorted that I'd earned it and at this point, deserved it. I think he was mostly just admonishing me, as he knew, by that time, what kind of student I was. I did get the A.

In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't all that important. But it was an experience that never left me, even to the point of remembering the teacher's name.

Looking back now, in the context of this thread, it probably did seem to him a lack of respect on my part for not doing the assignment. And it is, totally disrespectful to the teacher when a student doesn't care to take the teacher's efforts seriously enough to complete assignments. However, in the case of an A student skipping the 5% homework, I don't see it as much about respect as about wasted effort.
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Offline Lynn2000

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Re: Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 12:29:55 pm »
lowspark, that's quite a story! I think I would have had a complete meltdown if I'd forgotten about an assignment that big. But that's so amazing that you were able to rescue the grade--that teacher should have been impressed with your effort, rather than chiding you. I'm sure he saw many students who had a LOT worse "disrespect" than you. Everyone forgets something sometimes, even important things, and kids especially should be cut a little slack when it's not a regular issue.

I've been digitizing some diary entries from my school days, and one I'd totally forgotten about, but which obviously was a big deal to me at the time, was when I forgot an assignment in 8th grade. The teacher had said she'd be gone on a certain day, and we would have a sub, and we were to do a certain assignment in class then. At least, that's what I THOUGHT she said. Come that day, everyone else has already done the assignment and we're going OVER it in class! Obviously I didn't have it done so I got a zero. Of course, everyone in the class got a big kick out of it--I was not braggy at all, but everyone knew who got good grades and who didn't (we were always having to say our scores out loud and so forth), and a lot of people got some pleasure out of seeing me flounder. I was just really gobsmacked that I had gotten the instructions so wrong, and I wanted to talk to the teacher when she returned--I guess if everyone else heard it, they were probably correct and I was wrong, but I guess I wanted to explain what happened, because it would be really weird to her to see that I had a zero.

Unfortunately, I didn't record if I ever talked to the teacher or what happened in the end... I was much more interested at the time in recording the argument this caused between me and my friend, who thought I just needed to let it go and accept that I was wrong. She thought that when I talked to the teacher, I was going to ask for the grade to be changed--like extra time to do it or make it up somehow. I mean, honestly that doesn't seem so outrageous to me, even now--like, what would be wrong with anyone who'd made a mistake checking with the teacher to see if they could make it up somehow? I mean, by doing an extra assignment or something, I certainly didn't expect her to just pull a 85% out of the air and write it down for me or anything. Of course she could just say no, and that would be that. But in context, at the time, it seemed like a bad thing to do, and I claimed that wasn't my intention. It's interesting that it caused such bad feeling between me and my friend.

Another story I like to tell is from high school. I was in the "honors" level classes, college prep, but as I said, we were such a small school and not very rigorous, that the honors classes had a number of people who weren't exactly committed academics. Our English teacher assigned us an essay and said that it was due Tuesday evening, and if she had already left we should slip it under her classroom door, so she would pick it up first thing Wednesday morning. One of our brilliant comics said, "Well, what if I come in early Wednesday morning and slip it under the door? You won't know any different!" ::) Don't you just love how smart we thought we were back then? This guy was, at least, not all talk; he had the essay finished in time, but decided to take it home, and then come back really early Wednesday morning! Of course, he came back so early that the school was still locked, and by the time he was able to get in, the teacher had already arrived and picked up the essays, so his was late. Sweet karma. I don't think that was "disrespect" of the teacher so much as just being a 16-year-old idiot, but some teachers would have taken it more personally than others. Our English teacher was pretty experienced and just rolled her eyes and marked down that his essay was late so he would lose points for that--that, plus him getting up early and having his brilliant plan fail, was punishment enough in her eyes.

Offline STiG

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Re: Care & Feeding: Homework optional
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 02:23:01 pm »
I was taking a required computer programming course in a dead language that I knew was going to be no use to me at all.  I wanted to make sure I got a decent grade but I didn't want to spend a huge amount of time on it, unlike my friend.  One assignment was worth 10% of our grade.  If you could make the program do what it needed to do and make it look somewhat like what they wanted it to look like, you could score an 8.  If you made it exactly like what it was supposed to look like, you got a 10.  So I put in the time I needed to get my 8.  Friend spent at least double, probably more like triple the time I did and got his 10.  It just wasn't worth it to me to take that extra time and make it perfect.  Ended up with a decent grade and made the Dean's list that semester because I got decent grades in all my courses.  And while I don't know for sure, I'm pretty sure my grade was equal or better to friend's, based on a comment his brother made to me.

Learning how to prioritize your work and concentrate on the areas where you need to is a very valuable skill to have, both in post secondary education and for most jobs.  Not doing that particular class's homework may give student more time in a class they are finding difficult.  Or time to participate in an extracurricular or two.  Or even just time to hang out and be a teenager.  Student should be encouraged for making it work for her; I don't think it is disrespectful at all not to do homework, as long as you are grasping the material.
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