Polite Paradise

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 04:30:13 pm

Quote from: ginger aka Gellchom on September 05, 2018, 04:17:24 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:49:38 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 05, 2018, 03:37:06 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:18:06 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 05, 2018, 03:10:49 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:04:59 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 04, 2018, 12:20:46 pm

I like Nike's campaign, but not their choice of Kaep to be the "face" of it. IMO, so many others have made the ultimate sacrifice, and his so-called sacrifice just doesn't compare.

I do not understand. By "ultimate sacrifice" you are speaking of dead people, correct? Do you mean dead athletes or dead veterans or what? A live athlete is surely the best person to represent an athletics company.

I was referring to people who have given their lives in service to our country. They sacrificed in many ways, but I was speaking specifically of their final sacrifice.

How does this work? Does Nike cold-call families of dead veterans to find one who really liked Nike? What do dead veterans have to do with sportswear anyway?

Why a dead veteran as opposed to a schoolteacher? Schoolteachers make lots of sacrifices.

You're being rather disingenuous. By speaking of sacrifice I was noting that in my opinion Kaep did not sacrifice anything.

I am not being disingenuous;. I am asking you to clarify your stance.

But in any case, what does who has sacrificed more have to do with anything?   

Nike didn't have a contest to find the biggest sacrificer in America.  They are selling athletic wear.  Kaepernick is a famous athlete.  His sacrifice had to do with his athletic career.

Anyway, the point is about standing up (no pun intended) for an important purpose, even if it entails risk, not about honoring sacrifice for sacrifice's sake. 

Kaepernick's gesture never had anything to do with the military, and it is not an insult to soldiers, veterans, or the United States.  Those who insisted on mischaracterizing it as such (not anyone here, including Marley!) did so knowingly and cynically to distract and undercut.  And I think the same is true of those who are protesting Nike now.

I don't think who has sacrificed more has anything to do with any of this! Marley apparently does. Or not. I have no idea since they won't clarify what they mean.

As I said earlier, in my opinion he has not sacrificed anything. That's what I don't like about him being the face of the ad campaign.

By the way, I'm female and use feminine pronouns.

So, by extension, none of us here have sacrificed anything since none of us here is a dead veteran. I mean, OK, if that's what you believe, you do you.

You have yet to explain what veterans, dead or otherwise, have to do with Nike marketing.

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 04:03:29 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 05, 2018, 03:54:31 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:49:38 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 05, 2018, 03:37:06 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:18:06 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 05, 2018, 03:10:49 pm

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:04:59 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 04, 2018, 12:20:46 pm

I like Nike's campaign, but not their choice of Kaep to be the "face" of it. IMO, so many others have made the ultimate sacrifice, and his so-called sacrifice just doesn't compare.

I do not understand. By "ultimate sacrifice" you are speaking of dead people, correct? Do you mean dead athletes or dead veterans or what? A live athlete is surely the best person to represent an athletics company.

I was referring to people who have given their lives in service to our country. They sacrificed in many ways, but I was speaking specifically of their final sacrifice.

How does this work? Does Nike cold-call families of dead veterans to find one who really liked Nike? What do dead veterans have to do with sportswear anyway?

Why a dead veteran as opposed to a schoolteacher? Schoolteachers make lots of sacrifices.

You're being rather disingenuous. By speaking of sacrifice I was noting that in my opinion Kaep did not sacrifice anything.

I am not being disingenuous;. I am asking you to clarify your stance.

I already did.

No, you didn't. I asked you reasonable questions about your stance and you haven't answered a single one.

You are being purposely obtuse.

Excuse you? As you said to someone else, "Do not put words in my mouth or attribute personality characteristics to me. You do not know me." I am not being obtuse or disingenuous, I have asked you reasonable, polite questions about your own position. If you are unable or unwilling to answer them, you can convey that without resorting to insults.

So the sacrifices of soldiers, or teachers, or anyone else, including athletes, have nothing to do with the protest, and nothing to do with Nike, either.  Nike didn't say they were choosing someone as a spokesperson based on who they thought made the biggest sacrifice.  They make athletic wear; they chose an athlete.  Would you really expect them to choose a war hero?  Is it an insult to veterans not to choose a veteran to sell sneakers?

Yes, I agree with this. That is why I asked Marley questions. I don't understand what veterans, dead or otherwise, have to do with sportswear. It's so random and I was trying to understand.

I own a couple of Nike products. I want to think about athletes when I wear them. I want to be as disciplined, strong, fast, etc. When I work out, in that moment, I want to be like those athletes. I don't feel that way about veterans. 

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on September 05, 2018, 03:04:59 pm

Quote from: Marley on September 04, 2018, 12:20:46 pm

I like Nike's campaign, but not their choice of Kaep to be the "face" of it. IMO, so many others have made the ultimate sacrifice, and his so-called sacrifice just doesn't compare.

I do not understand. By "ultimate sacrifice" you are speaking of dead people, correct? Do you mean dead athletes or dead veterans or what? A live athlete is surely the best person to represent an athletics company.

I was referring to people who have given their lives in service to our country. They sacrificed in many ways, but I was speaking specifically of their final sacrifice.

How does this work? Does Nike cold-call families of dead veterans to find one who really liked Nike? What do dead veterans have to do with sportswear anyway?

Why a dead veteran as opposed to a schoolteacher? Schoolteachers make lots of sacrifices.

DH and I give our dog a special treat on the day we celebrate his birthday. If he had a dog friend, we would probably invite them over for a playdate. Not a formal party, but a way to mark the occasion. Our dog is getting old and we want to enjoy these moments while we have them. I have seen people at the dog park throwing parties for their dogs with food and hats. I think that is a little extreme (and a bad idea), but the idea of a birthday party itself is not unusual to me.

If the dog is staying with your sister then I guess no one can stop her if she wants to throw a party at her own home even if you can keep her away from your parents' home. That doesn't mean anyone has to show up though. I wouldn't mention this at all to your niece -- if your sister is serious about it, it's up to her to communicate the plans. If your niece wants to go and you can drop her off/pick her up, that sounds okay. If your sister tries talking to you about the party, I think you could tell her you're not interested in planning a party for a dog. That's a reasonable stance. I love dogs, but I'm not interested in planning their birthday parties.

I think Barb's lack of response means she doesn't want the animal. I also think she should have said "thanks but no thanks" to your offer -- it's polite to acknowledge it, plus it's clearer than silence.

Does Barb typically wait this long to respond to you or is this unusual? I would hold onto the animal for a couple of weeks and message Barb as you normally would without mentioning it. If she replies to those messages but not the one about the animal being ready, I think that's a sign she doesn't want it. I think going forward, unless Barb explicitly accepts one of your offers, it's best to assume she isn't interested.

Did you offer to write the history for her or present it to her fully formed? It sounds like the latter, and it's possible Barb wasn't sure what to do, especially if she was in the middle of planning this reunion. That kind of gesture, while well-intentioned, can feel like a chore or one more thing to do on top of a pile of others.

I don't think you've done anything wrong by making these items and following up on them. I don't think Barb is doing anything wrong either by not wanting these items, though I think she could communicate better. You two are just approaching this from completely different angles.

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on July 26, 2018, 11:36:58 am

Quote from: Jem on July 26, 2018, 11:27:29 am

Quote from: Bad at Picking Usernames on July 26, 2018, 11:18:10 am

Quote from: Jem on July 26, 2018, 10:23:04 am

Quote from: gorplady on July 26, 2018, 12:13:23 am

I want to be clear I'm not operating as a mod with this post.

If you are afraid of where the USA is going under Donald Trump, you must vote. Not be afraid, not be disheartened, not be apathetic.

Every single House of Representative seat is up this fall. Every single one. If you want to effect change, then you. must. vote.

You can make a difference if you just vote.

Want to know how to help even further? Find your local political party office (and if you don't know how, PM me and I'll find it for you.) and tell them you want to help.

1:1 conversations with voters are the most effective way to change hearts and minds. Not fancy billboards or designer ads or campaign gimmicks, but real, honest conversation with each other about the issues that are important to you.

And then you need to all **** vote. (And I make no apologies for swearing.)

We are in this mess not because of Hillary or Donald, but because in all actuality, the statistics show that the majority of Americans DID NOT VOTE. Voter turnout and participation has decreased over the last decade as our politics become more polarized. But guess who is voting? The polarized people. And that's why we are where we are.

So go vote.

/end rant

I 100% agree. Regardless of political views, the bolded green is very important. If you (general) truly want to effectuate change, talk to people directly and actually listen to what they have to say also. Don't shut them down and label them - this will result in the opposite of getting them to understand your perspective and possibly change theirs. I have found that a lot of people (perhaps not the hyper-polarized on either side, but the vast majority) agree on more things than they disagree on. There can be polite and productive discussion.....but reading the magical worldwide interwebs one would never know it. Treat your fellow citizens as teammates in developing a better world, not as adversaries you need to attack and disparage, if you want them to see your perspective.

An important corollary this: Some people aren't worth listening to. That includes people with abhorrent views and people who bleat about reaching out to people with abhorrent views. Spend your time and energy wisely.

I agree in principle. That said, different things are "abhorrent" to different people and if everyone simply refused to talk with or listen to people with differing views there would never be any progress made. For some people, abortion is truly abhorrent. Should these people refuse to ever listen to or speak with anyone who thinks it is not? For some people, turning people away who have illegally crossed the border is truly abhorrent. Should these people refuse to ever listen to or speak with anyone who thinks our border laws should be enforced?

Well, I have no problem differentiating between "abhorrent" and "differing." If you do, I can't help you with that. I'm no teacher.

I hope I am misreading your aggressive tone?

Yes, you are, since my tone isn't aggressive.

Quote from: gorplady on July 26, 2018, 12:13:23 am

I want to be clear I'm not operating as a mod with this post.

If you are afraid of where the USA is going under Donald Trump, you must vote. Not be afraid, not be disheartened, not be apathetic.

Every single House of Representative seat is up this fall. Every single one. If you want to effect change, then you. must. vote.

You can make a difference if you just vote.

Want to know how to help even further? Find your local political party office (and if you don't know how, PM me and I'll find it for you.) and tell them you want to help.

1:1 conversations with voters are the most effective way to change hearts and minds. Not fancy billboards or designer ads or campaign gimmicks, but real, honest conversation with each other about the issues that are important to you.

And then you need to all **** vote. (And I make no apologies for swearing.)

We are in this mess not because of Hillary or Donald, but because in all actuality, the statistics show that the majority of Americans DID NOT VOTE. Voter turnout and participation has decreased over the last decade as our politics become more polarized. But guess who is voting? The polarized people. And that's why we are where we are.

So go vote.

/end rant

I 100% agree. Regardless of political views, the bolded green is very important. If you (general) truly want to effectuate change, talk to people directly and actually listen to what they have to say also. Don't shut them down and label them - this will result in the opposite of getting them to understand your perspective and possibly change theirs. I have found that a lot of people (perhaps not the hyper-polarized on either side, but the vast majority) agree on more things than they disagree on. There can be polite and productive discussion.....but reading the magical worldwide interwebs one would never know it. Treat your fellow citizens as teammates in developing a better world, not as adversaries you need to attack and disparage, if you want them to see your perspective.

An important corollary this: Some people aren't worth listening to. That includes people with abhorrent views and people who bleat about reaching out to people with abhorrent views. Spend your time and energy wisely.