Polite Paradise

It used to be, at least more so, that politicians used to be polite to each other in public. What they said in private probably was as nasty as anything today but when addressing their opponent in a debate or in the political arena they would adhere to tolerable politeness.

Either yesterday or today someone over at Brimstones started some sort of discussion about Hilary Clinton's behavior toward Trump at Bush's funeral. I recall adding to it this morning, saying something like my first paragraph and wishing that all politicians, former and current, could at least adhere to public politeness. She gave him the cut direct and that seemed to me to be completely disrespectful during a memorial service.

Of course, politics has become so much more divisive and outright nasty in the last ten or twenty years. I think it's part of why hatred has grown so strong when the issue of politics comes up. If we can't maintain at least a facade of politeness then is there any hope at all that any common ground might be found, or is the split permanent and only going to grow wider. I am not hopeful.

Honestly, I don't see that as just a politician giving the cut to a random other politician.
1) Trump verbally attacked Clinton during their pre-election phase, including a threat that she would be in jail if he were president.
2) Clinton is a politician who certainly has her problematic sides (I have a problem with some of the things she says, too). Trump is a politician -somehow- who lives to offend and harm people. I'm not a politician, nor am I one of the people effected by his decisions, but I would give him the cut if he ever happened to be in the same place with me. That is the politest option I would have for him.

I think the fact that this occurred at a funeral is what is bothersome about it. That day should have been all about honoring a former President and the entire Bush family.

Not one iota of it was about Trump or Clinton and their animosity for each other. Even Michelle Obama shook his hand and smiled. Yeah, it was fake, but she still observed the decorum that the situation warranted.

Yeah, for me it's on a sliding scale. It would have been NICE if Hillary Clinton could have acknowledged Trump when he arrived, as Michelle Obama did, BUT given all the garbage Trump says and does, I would honestly give him the cut direct as well. We can't all rise to the extraordinarily gracious level of Michelle Obama in that moment, and a cut direct is an acceptable, if extreme, response. It's quiet, it was really a non-event, like literally nothing happened between them (Trump and Clinton), and I think it would only be worth commentary if someone was LOOKING for a complaint to make. Otherwise they both kept their focus on the service, which is what they should have done.

I think people just get tired of trying to treat Trump with normal behavior, when he obviously doesn't try at all and seems to have no clue what normal behavior even IS. Like if there had just been some "normal" animosity during the campaign, everyone would say, "Hey, that's just business, don't take it personally, at the end of the day let's work together." But Trump upends all the normal rules. He does and says the most vile, personal, false, malicious, unnecessary things, with glee, and he never makes a sincere apology, tries to change his ways, or do anything to help someone other than himself. It's all well and good to say, "Let's rise above that behavior, let's kill 'em with kindness, let's take the high road no matter what the other person is doing," but sometimes you just get frickin' tired of doing that extra work, which has zero effect on the other person anyway, and you just want to ignore the other person, in a non-attention-getting way.

If someone was loudly and angrily calling for me to be "locked up" less than 2 months ago, I'm not sure why I would be expected to be the bigger person and greet him with a smile (gritted teeth or not). It's not like his trash ended with campaign. It gets brought up again every time he starts to feel threatened. And, why aren't we condemning trump for being a petulant child and not greeting the Clinton's or Carter? Is it because he's such a baby that expectations for him are lower and everyone else must make up for him?

I just now watched what I could find in a short clip.

I wouldn't call that a cut direct, nor something Ms Clinton did TO Mr Trump.

Ms Trump offered to shake hands with Mr Obama, then Ms Obama. Mr Clinton was a bit far away to reach, and she hesitated.

Mr Clinton reached across Ms Obama, and then Ms Trump shook his hand. Ms Clinton was off camera and much too far away to shake hands, but Ms Trump gave a slight wave and nod, that appeared like it was mutual.

Mr Trump sat down and offered his hand to Mr Obama. He made eye contact with Ms Obama, and she offered her hand. (By the way, this was correct for social etiquette. Ms Obama is a private citizen, not a work colleague, so it was proper for the man to wait for the woman to offer).

He appeared to make eye contact with Mr Clinton, but at that point they would have had to almost lie across three people's laps to shake hands, and they both turned away.

Neither he nor Ms Clinton made eye contact with each other.

If he had offered Ms Clinton any sort of greeting and she ignored him, that would be a cut direct. But this appeared to be a mutual, and pretty subtle, avoidance. Ms Clinton would have had to really go out of her way to greet him when he wasn't looking at her, either.

Considering the solemnity and nonpartisan nature of the occasion, it all seems perfectly appropriate to me. Unless there was another more marked incident later, I think the talk of her "icing" him, or appearing "bitter" (as some of the stories are titled) is making something out of nothing.

The fact is, the press would make fodder out of anything they did. If she'd made an effort to get his attention and force a greeting on him (or vice versa), or even if they'd mutually shared a nod and wave, it would be spun up into a story.

I think keeping it low key was a good choice here.

That was my memory of it too, that both Trump and Hillary Clinton really didn't attempt to initiate contact with each other at all. I just didn't want to search for a clip to confirm! It wasn't like he stuck out his hand and she ignored it, or vice versa. Granted, I may have misused the term "cut direct," when it was really just mutual ignoring. It would have been acceptable for them to greet each other, but it was also acceptable for them to ignore each other, given where they were seated.

I don't know what, if any, interaction the Trumps had with the Carters, who I think were even farther away, on the far side of the Clintons, but no one has brought this up as evidence of poor behavior by any party. I'm not saying there isn't animosity between Trump and Hillary Clinton, and neither certainly went out of their way to greet the other, but the very careful seating arrangements allowed them to do this and not LOOK like they were outright snubbing each other, unless someone really wanted something to complain about.

I think the seating was as much serendipity as anything. They were seated in chronological order with the president/former president on the left (to a viewer) and the spouse on the right. Ms. Clinton was a candidate, but in this context she only "counts" as a former First Lady. If she were attending as a former Secretary of State or Senator, she'd be further back. The George W. Bushes would have been between the Obamas and the Clintons, but of course they were next of kin and seated elsewhere.

The Carters were so far down the row it would have been a huge production to do any sort of greetings. It's not a receiving line. The ability or effective distance to do a low-key greeting petered out right around where Mr Clinton was sitting, and I think that's just fine.

I just saw a CNN commentary where the host mentioned that George W Bush went down the row in front of the pew and greeted all the former presidents and shook hands with them, and they questioned whether Mr Trump should have done that, too.

I'm no Trump fan by a long shot. But it would have been wildly inappropriate for Mr Trump to act like the host at another family's funeral. He was a guest paying his respects. Mr Bush was the chief mourner/family representative, and it was his role to thank them all for coming. It does irk me when the media takes perfectly normal/appropriate human behavior and makes it into some kind of political statement.

Yes, funerals are usually very much about the family and close, family-like friends. I don't know what the norm is for Presidential funerals, but I think following the norm for a "regular" funeral would be fine. It would be weird to have someone who was currently in the job you used to hold, who you didn't really know that well (had they ever even met?), participate much in the service.

There used to be a post between my #10 and #11. I don't know where it went.