Author Topic: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"  (Read 1110 times)

Offline Damocles

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Offline ginger aka Gellchom

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 02:40:37 pm »
I read it all carefully and as objectively as I could, and I simply can't tell the difference between his position and "As President, I am above the law." 

But then, who am I to question the legal expertise of Donald Trump?    :)
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Offline Trishlovesdolphins

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2018, 05:17:54 pm »
I wish someone would call his bluff already. Let's test his declaration.
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guest121

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 05:40:49 pm »
I am not a Constitutional scholar, but my understanding is that a sitting POTUS can't be charged with a crime until after he or she is impeached by Congress, convicted by Congress, and removed from office.

Article I Section 2 of the Constitution grants broad pardon powers, but specifically excludes impeachment. Once impeached and removed, the ex-POTUS would no longer be able to pardon anyone.

Pre-emptive pardons to private individuals are allowed (pardoning before charges/conviction). But whether the POTUS could pre-emptively pardon himself was all argued out in the 1970's, and the general legal consensus is no.

But nobody's ever tried. The POTUS could physically sign the document. Whether it would be considered valid after the fact, is a matter for billable hours and popcorn.

But in any event, whether Trump goes to jail or not, he can't stop Congress from impeaching him - if they are willing to do so.

Offline Damocles

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 07:04:19 pm »
I am not a Constitutional scholar, but my understanding is that a sitting POTUS can't be charged with a crime until after he or she is impeached by Congress, convicted by Congress, and removed from office.

Article I Section 2 of the Constitution grants broad pardon powers, but specifically excludes impeachment. Once impeached and removed, the ex-POTUS would no longer be able to pardon anyone.

Pre-emptive pardons to private individuals are allowed (pardoning before charges/conviction). But whether the POTUS could pre-emptively pardon himself was all argued out in the 1970's, and the general legal consensus is no.

But nobody's ever tried. The POTUS could physically sign the document. Whether it would be considered valid after the fact, is a matter for billable hours and popcorn.

But in any event, whether Trump goes to jail or not, he can't stop Congress from impeaching him - if they are willing to do so.

You are correct.  I'd want in on the billable party.

Offline AngelicGamer

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 11:21:28 pm »
Wait, what?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/trump-i-have-the-absolute-right-to-pardon-myself.html

Annnnd it's MONDAY!

...it's a day ending in Y, I'm starting to feel like. It's still his first (hopefully only) term and it feels a million years long.


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Offline Kiara

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2018, 08:41:33 am »
And today we get to follow it up with a rally on the White House lawn, since those mean Philadelphia Eagles didn't want to come down.

*facepalm*

Offline Damocles

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 11:06:51 am »
And today we get to follow it up with a rally on the White House lawn, since those mean Philadelphia Eagles didn't want to come down.

*facepalm*

None of the Eagles players knelt during the anthem last season either. 

Offline PeasInQueues

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 11:19:15 am »
They don't want to come because they don't like his administration and he turned it into an anthem thing - again. And his people are eating it up.

Offline Kiara

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Re: Trump - "I have absolute right to pardon myself"
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 11:59:45 am »
And today we get to follow it up with a rally on the White House lawn, since those mean Philadelphia Eagles didn't want to come down.

*facepalm*

None of the Eagles players knelt during the anthem last season either. 

Oh, I know.  His real problem was that fewer than 10 players were going to show up.  And we all know how he loves his crowd sizes.

Offline Trishlovesdolphins

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And today we get to follow it up with a rally on the White House lawn, since those mean Philadelphia Eagles didn't want to come down.

*facepalm*

None of the Eagles players knelt during the anthem last season either. 

Oh, I know.  His real problem was that fewer than 10 players were going to show up.  And we all know how he loves his crowd sizes.

Well, size is a sore spot for him... baby "hands" and all.

Offline Hello Ducky

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I'm neither a Trump supporter nor a Clinton supporter, but in the interest of fairness, I present the following from a year ago.  It's not a new idea.

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/if-hillary-is-indicted-president-clinton-could-pardon-herself-and-congress-might-be-helpless/

Offline PeasInQueues

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I'm neither a Trump supporter nor a Clinton supporter, but in the interest of fairness, I present the following from a year ago.  It's not a new idea.

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/if-hillary-is-indicted-president-clinton-could-pardon-herself-and-congress-might-be-helpless/

No, of course it's not. It's been debated or discussed for years because it's an interesting theoretical discussion.

But, the fact that a sitting president has bandied about that he has the "absolute right" (which is debatable in the first place), but also pretty much that he would. A president that is surrounded by indictments and guilty pleas. A president who has been doing everything possible to not only undermine the investigation by impugning the reputation of the investigators (who suddenly went from wide Republican support to vilification when it became clear he was actually investigating) but the investigating institutions, who has repeatedly and publicly maligned his own Attorney General because he appropriately removed himself from the investigation because this is "disloyal". A president that has pardoned some very politically scary people as if sending a message to those currently under investigation. A president whose own attorney is under investigation.

That takes it right out of the theoretical discussion into the "how the hell do we stop this" discussion.
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guest121

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They don't want to come because they don't like his administration and he turned it into an anthem thing - again. And his people are eating it up.

Some of them didn't want to come just because they didn't want to be used as pawns to attack their fellow players.

Even the ones who may not be strongly anti-Trump are savvy enough to know how he would use them.
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Offline MrTango

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I am not a Constitutional scholar, but my understanding is that a sitting POTUS can't be charged with a crime until after he or she is impeached by Congress, convicted by Congress, and removed from office.

Article I Section 2 of the Constitution grants broad pardon powers, but specifically excludes impeachment. Once impeached and removed, the ex-POTUS would no longer be able to pardon anyone.

Pre-emptive pardons to private individuals are allowed (pardoning before charges/conviction). But whether the POTUS could pre-emptively pardon himself was all argued out in the 1970's, and the general legal consensus is no.

But nobody's ever tried. The POTUS could physically sign the document. Whether it would be considered valid after the fact, is a matter for billable hours and popcorn.

But in any event, whether Trump goes to jail or not, he can't stop Congress from impeaching him - if they are willing to do so.

The Constitution's limitation on presidential pardons in cases of impeachment also means that the successors of an impeached president would not have power to pardon an impeached president of the crimes for which he was impeached.