Author Topic: warning someone away from marrying  (Read 1505 times)

Offline Trishlovesdolphins

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2018, 04:10:19 pm »
I think that if you know the person well, they already know if you think they should get married or not. I told my best friend that her boyfriend was not a good long term match, years before they got married. Anytime the subject came up, I told her I didn't think it was a good idea. When she went over to break up with him, but came back engaged, I said, "Wow. What happened to breaking up?"

Their divorce was finalized on their 3 year anniversary. They have a kid that he doesn't seem to want, he gives him over to his mother for visitation and spends his time with his new wife/baby or playing video games....

In the end, I was right, but at the same time, you can't make people's choices for them. All you can do is be a good friend and support them when you can. Just don't allow their decisions suck you down too.

I'm curious how your friend reacted to this, before, during and after her marriage?  I do think it's easier to be objective about certain things standing on the outside, but relationships are so deeply personal, I don't think I could ever tell a friend that I know better how she should manage her relationship than she does.

I would guess that while there are a few cases where best friends could be brutally honest about disapproving a marriage and the friendship can remain in tact, in many cases, this type of honesty can come across as unsupportive, jealousy related, and even superior know-it-all.  I'm not saying that's what you did, but telling a friend her partner isn't a good match is not at all like telling her "he assaulted me."  If you're willing to share, I'd like to know more about how this worked out.

Well, when they divorced, she called me and said, "you were right." So there's that.

As far as before, it was fine. We didn't do the whole "cry it out over wine with an intervention" type thing. I pretty much just said things like, "If you think he's irresponsible now, what do you think he'll be like as a husband?" or "I really like him. I don't think he'd be a great husband, but he's fun to hang around and do things with." or "Don't you think that XYZ needs to be solved before you accept a proposal?"

Most of my friends look to me for relationship advice, I've been with my husband since I was 15, I'm 38 this year. We've been married 18 years come July. So I get a lot of "how did you know?" type questions and "what would you do if your DH did...." I've never had someone get upset, and I try to stay neutral as much as I can. Now, there've been 2 times where I flat out told a friend, "I don't like him. He's bad for you. He's going to beat you. Don't marry him. Don't date him. Throw his ass to the curb." And they didn't take the advice... at first. In those cases, you need to be stubborn and set because when a person is abusing their SO, they WANT to isolate them. They WANT you to say those things and leave the friend because you can't take seeing them go through the cycle over and over. They WANT to be the only option so they can't leave. All you can do then is be a good listener and remind them that they're stronger/more powerful than the abuser and let them know you're there.
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Offline Lynn2000

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 04:46:08 pm »
Yeah, if a friend is complaining to you about their SO, like, "He's so irresponsible with money!" it seems perfectly natural to me to say, "Well, last week you were talking marriage, don't you think being irresponsible with money might be a problem then?" Sometimes people just want to complain, but really don't have a big problem; other times people are complaining to kind of test the waters, and see if their friends agree with them. Like they have a subconscious feeling that this person isn't right for them, but voicing that is a huge thing, so they indirectly check to see what others think first. And some people want fixer-uppers, so they complain to show how much work they're going to have to do to fix this person, but really they love it.

Offline cayenne

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2018, 05:33:55 pm »
And some people want fixer-uppers, so they complain to show how much work they're going to have to do to fix this person

Fixer-upper, ha. I like that term. No more fixer-uppers for me!
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Offline Allyson

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2018, 10:51:00 pm »
I think also it's important to remember - nobody's always right. We tend to remember the times we're right about someone, but not remember the times we aren't. It feels really good to be like "everyone else liked him, but *I* knew he was a scumbag!" but sometimes we are the "everyone else" and sometimes we take badly to someone and there's nothing really wrong with them after all. So I always try to remember that I'm not the Love Guru and could very well be wrong if it's just an opinion/"feeling". Concrete evidence is one thing, and I also think it's good to be honest if someone straight up asks you. But I definitely can have a tendency to think I'm always right, but that's just statistically unlikely :) that my "gut instinct" is any better than anyone else's, so I don't think I'd ever just be like "I don't like him" or something. And as Lynn says something that would be a straight up NOPE for me might be a yeah for someone else, so...

Also I do know one example of someone who got out of a bad relationship because his friend told him to! He was constantly complaining about his SO and finally one day his friend was like "just end it already!" and it was like a switch flipped - he realized that he COULD do that! I think that is only likely to be a thing with young people/first relationships though. Tread carefully lol.
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Offline MrTango

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 09:43:06 am »
Personally, unless I have something really concrete and factual about someone's S/O, I'm not going to say anything unless I'm directly asked to give my opinion.
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Offline Lynn2000

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 09:45:18 am »
I think a friend can point out patterns. Like, "It seems like you complain pretty often about him being irresponsible with money. There was the time with the electric bill, and the time with the video game console, and the thing with his car, and... But now you're saying you want to move in with him and make a financial commitment?" It's not so much "warning away" as saying, "Hey, you might have missed this pattern. How are you reconciling it?" And you might find that your friend has just been exaggerating their complaints and actually thinks their SO is pretty responsible; or maybe they are cool with joining up and being the person in charge of all the money, so it's fine, at least in their minds.

But, I find that a lot of times people are startled when you point out a pattern. Patterns are really hard to notice when you're part of them. Sometimes it really gives them something to think about, like, "Hmm, yeah, he does do that a lot." Other times, they realize the slanted perception they have been giving YOU, when it doesn't really reflect how they actually feel. Like they always tell you the complaints but never the good things, so you end up thinking their SO is worse than they really are. Like I used to be friends with someone who, after she had her first child, would tell me how sweet her husband was with the baby. And I was like, "That's so awesome, you complained about him so much during the pregnancy I was worried he would check out and not be very hands-on." And she kind of gave me this cold look and said, "I wouldn't have married him if I didn't think he would be a good father!" Well, excuse me, you spent your entire pregnancy complaining about how he was anxious and ignorant and lacked common sense and couldn't come to grips with it. Why would you think I would conclude anything other than that about him?

Nowadays to me it's not the marrying that's a big deal, it's the having kids together. Once you have a child with someone, you are stuck with them. Even if you get a divorce, unless either you or they completely check out of the child's life (sometimes a good thing!), you are going to be dealing with them for the rest of your life. Plus a child can easily be an innocent victim of the adults around them, whether it's parents or grandparents or whoever doing a power play. There was this one guy who I worked with for several years, and I thought he was extremely immature and insecure, and even misogynist and racist but almost more just as part of his immaturity and insecurity--like, knee-jerk, must make fun of someone else to avoid getting made fun of myself. And, he was way too old to be that immature--he was around 30. He left our company and moved someplace else, met this woman, moved around with her, they ended up getting married, and about a year ago I heard that they had a baby. Until that point I was just kind of rolling my eyes--he had become a joke in our office, like ha-ha, remember when he said this or did that, what an idiot, ha-ha. But after the baby I was like, "Okay, this is serious now, and could be very sad." Granted I haven't seen him for going on 10 years, but it's hard for me to imagine what kind of miracle worker this lady must be to have transformed him into someone who could be a healthy parent. I'm sure I'll never know, because I won't ever seen him again beyond Facebook probably, but sometimes you just see stuff and are like, "Who thought that was a good idea?"
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Offline cayenne

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 11:21:16 am »
IMO Lynn2000's post is thoughtful and well-said.
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Offline Bad at Picking Usernames

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 12:33:30 pm »
The first time I met my friend's fiance, I thought, "Why is she with this guy?" I didn't dislike him, I just didn't think they were a good match. I didn't say anything though because all I had was, "I'm not convinced he's the one for you" and my gut feeling is hardly going to stop a wedding. My friend did her best to make the marriage work, her husband didn't, and they divorced after two years. I'm sorry it happened, but I'm not sorry I stayed quiet since I don't think I would have achieved anything except to upset my friend.

Another friend of mine was dating a no-good guy and I was very worried they might get married since they were headed in that direction. She did all the heavy lifting in that relationship; he seemed to enjoy having someone pliable who also made money and took care of the house. She would call me crying because of the careless or mean things he said or did and we'd spend hours on the phone. All I wanted to say was "Break up with him! He's a jerk!" but I didn't want her to feel obliged to defend him and I didn't want him to try to isolate her from me. I did agree with her when he was being irrational/irresponsible and told her she deserves to be happy in a relationship. I tried to help her come to the realization that she could and should break up with him; I knew that was better than me driving that point home. She eventually did, thank goodness. She was grateful for my support, I'm happy she broke free, and we are as close as ever.

So I think whether and how you intervene are very situational. It's easier when a guy (or woman) is being an out-and-out jerk or cheating or something obvious. It's different when it's more subtle.

Offline Lynn2000

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 12:45:35 pm »
And some people don't seem to want to be helped. This wasn't a romantic relationship; but a friend/former co-worker came to me more than once, literally in tears, because of something mean another co-worker had said to her. I was like, "Yeah, that was mean, she shouldn't have said it. You know she isn't going to change, though, so stop talking to her. Stop confiding in her, so she doesn't have ammo to use against you." And... that never happened. The girl kept going back and asking the mean person for advice and help with stuff.

You can be a sounding board, you can point out patterns, you can give advice, but you can't make people choose a better option.

Offline Winterlight

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 10:29:53 pm »
I had a friend who was dating a guy who was seriously jealous and controlling- he did things like demand that she call and check in when we were on a trip, and if she stayed out "too late" in his opinion he'd scream at her. We were talking about him one day and I said, "You don't sound like you're happy in this relationship." She stopped for a moment and looked really startled, and then said quietly, "Maybe I'm not." Then she changed the subject very abruptly.

A couple weeks later she told me she'd broken up with him. He had picked a fight which escalated into him trying to push her out of a moving car.

I wanted to yell during that first discussion, "DUMP HIM AND RUN!!!" but that's not useful. Also, if someone's in what sounds like an abusive situation, they really don't need another person yelling at them for what is supposed to be their own good.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls
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Offline STiG

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 11:36:34 am »
I was on course with a coworker and we decided to walk back to the hotel after the day was over.  Her BF called her a few minutes into the walk so she told him she was with me, that she'd call him back when she got to the hotel and that it was going to be at least an hour.  There were 3 or 4 more calls from him before the hour was up.  I don't remember exactly what I said but it was something like how I wouldn't be able to handle that.

She ended up not getting on with us full time; I don't know what happened with the guy but I really hope she dumped him.

Offline Morrigan

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2018, 07:40:04 pm »
It can be a difficult call. I've been in situations myself where thankfully, we weren't married, but my friends told me I should dump my loser boyfriend (the first guy I ever dated). Instead I kept defending him, saying he couldn't be cheating on me all the time (newsflash: he was), and that I was a bad person for not being there for him.  Now that I'm older, I know that no matter how much I was there for him, he still would have done what he did - I can see things so much more clearly now that I'm not in that situation.

One of my best friends was dating a guy who physically held her down and punched her right in front of me and his friends. Her parents came over (the **** had left by that point), and I cried and told them what went on. She kept going back to him though - at some point, I couldn't talk to her, because I knew that she'd stay with him no matter what I said. She finally left him, but it was of her own will, and not because she suddenly realized that all of her friends hated the guy.

So I get warning someone away, but they are going to do what they want, unfortunately.

Offline Lynn2000

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2018, 07:48:31 pm »
Just out of curiosity, do people know of times when they were warned about an SO, and it turned out to be false? Like, they were NOT cheating, or someone hated them but you could never understand why, because you felt you were treated properly. Outside some obvious bias, like racism.

Kind of like, where there's smoke, there's fire--is it common for reasonable people to actually make mistakes, and warn when there's no problem? Or do almost all warnings (except from the crazy ex or whatever) mean something?

Of course sometimes it can be hard to tell, because we're still alive! I remember 15 years ago or so, my mom telling me at my cousin's wedding she didn't get a good feeling from the groom, and usually she's pretty perceptive. But, they are still married, they have a child, and all indications that I've ever seen or heard are that he is a great guy. But maybe next week they get a divorce, you know? So looking at two people from the outside, you can't really say "it worked out well" until it either doesn't, or they reach the end of their lives.
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Offline Allyson

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 09:30:02 pm »
Totally agree, Lynn. I think that people will often hold onto their "Feeling" about someone, because it's basically impossible to prove a negative. And heck, maybe they'll get divorced but it won't mean your mom was "right", just sometimes things don't work out. There's been a big push lately about "listen to your gut" and so on, and while I think there's some merit in it - I think people can definitely have false positives with that sort of thing. Or try to justify the irrational - ie sometimes I just find a person annoying or grating, so will look at everything they do through that lens (google "**** eating crackers") but it doesn't mean some other person won't find my walking pet peeve to be their dream come true.

The whole thing with "gut feelings" about someone is that it isn't magic. It's our subconscious picking up on something. But our subconscious isn't infallible - otherwise we'd all get gut feelings about bad people, and we clearly don't. Also "being able to read people" is up there with "multitasking" in "skills most people think they're above average at." Sometimes our subconscious is picking up on signs of malfeasance, but other times it's because the person has mannerisms that remind us of someone sketchy we knew, or they're doing something slightly "off" and we can't quantify it. For example I have a friend with a disability that manifests in a mild facial tic, as well as a couple other physical behaviours that read as "odd". They're not things he can control, but he often just gives people a "bad" vibe without them really knowing why. It's awkward because he can't exactly change it, nor can he explain it to people without sounding really strange. Our lizard brains are there for a reason but can be fooled in both directions.
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Offline cayenne

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Re: warning someone away from marrying
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2018, 08:20:40 am »
"being able to read people" is up there with "multitasking" in "skills most people think they're above average at."

Also, most people think they are above average in being able to tell if someone is lying. It's irritating when someone thinks I'm lying, when I am telling them the God's honest truth. One time I actually had to make up a (minor, not important or illegal) lie so that the person would stop ragging me about something, because they would not believe what I was telling them and would. not. let. it. drop.
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